Yurko Gutsulyak

“我們熱愛我們所做的，并相信任何工作的結(jié)果只有在有趣的過程之下才可能有趣?！边@是Yurko Gutsulyak創(chuàng)辦的平面設(shè)計(jì)工作室的一句介紹。

這位來自烏克蘭的設(shè)計(jì)師，在十幾年前原本做著營銷的工作，本著對(duì)設(shè)計(jì)的誤解而入了行。如今，他已成為一個(gè)擁有16年經(jīng)驗(yàn)的職業(yè)設(shè)計(jì)師以及藝術(shù)總監(jiān)，對(duì)設(shè)計(jì)也有了自己的理解。

Narkii:

您大學(xué)專業(yè)是營銷，畢業(yè)后也有一年在做本專業(yè)的工作，之后轉(zhuǎn)作為設(shè)計(jì)師，您當(dāng)時(shí)是怎么做的呢？

You graduated from university as a marketing manager and worked according to your education just for one year, then you started your creative career. How did you make it?

Yurko: 

這是一個(gè)非常自然，甚至偶然的決定。在一家服裝廠（位于一個(gè)省城）的營銷部門工作后，為了實(shí)現(xiàn)了我的創(chuàng)意夢(mèng)想，我搬到了首都。一開始沒有生計(jì)，任何我能找到的工作我都得去做。一個(gè)朋友告訴我，這個(gè)世界上最簡單的職業(yè)就是設(shè)計(jì)師，因?yàn)槟悴恍枰厥獾慕逃蛑R(shí)，也不受任何責(zé)任約束……那時(shí)，我甚至沒有意識(shí)到我有多么錯(cuò)，這位給我提建議的朋友有多么錯(cuò)。就這樣，在我到基輔后的第四天，我開始在打印店做設(shè)計(jì)師。半年后，我成了一家雖小但有發(fā)展?jié)摿Φ脑O(shè)計(jì)公司的主要設(shè)計(jì)師。在那工作的一年里，我漸漸了解什么是真正的平面設(shè)計(jì)，我的項(xiàng)目也為公司贏得了許多獎(jiǎng)項(xiàng)。獲得成功后，我被邀請(qǐng)加入一家著名的烏克蘭葡萄酒和白蘭地品牌公司的營銷部門。所以我就有了機(jī)會(huì)同時(shí)作為設(shè)計(jì)公司以及公司內(nèi)部的設(shè)計(jì)師；也有了勇氣去創(chuàng)新，有了耐心去改進(jìn)。我學(xué)著把我的營銷知識(shí)與設(shè)計(jì)經(jīng)驗(yàn)結(jié)合起來。最后，為了能夠自由地發(fā)揮創(chuàng)意，我創(chuàng)立了自己的工作室。

It was very spontaneous or even random decision. After working in the marketing department of a garment factory (in a provincial city) I moved to the capital aiming to realize my creative dreams. Without livelihood, I had to find any possible job right from the beginning. A friend of mine told me that the easiest profession in this world is a designer as you do not need special education or knowledge and it is not bound by any responsibility… At that moment I didn't even realize how wrong was I and how wrong was my adviser. This way I started my work in a print shop as a designer on the fourth day after arriving in Kyiv. A half year later I started working in small but very progressive design agency as a leading designer. During one year of working there, I started to understand what is real graphic design and my projects had won the majority of awards for this agency. Being successful I was invited to join the marketing department of a famous Ukrainian wine and brandy brand. So I had a chance to be an agency designer as well as an in-house designer; to have courage for creating something new and patience to evolve already created things. I was learning to combine my marketing education and design experience. Finally, I started my own agency inspired with the idea of creative freedom.

Fairy Milk

Narkii: 

營銷在你后來的設(shè)計(jì)生涯中扮演什么角色呢？

What kind of role does marketing play in your design career?

Yurko: 

在我開啟我的設(shè)計(jì)生涯時(shí)，我低估了我的教育背景的力量，它雖然是獨(dú)立地工作，但卻非常有用。在開展和分析工作室的每個(gè)項(xiàng)目時(shí)，我都一人分飾兩角——設(shè)計(jì)師和營銷經(jīng)理。它讓我能夠明白真正的客戶需求，并在設(shè)計(jì)的所有流程中緊盯住目標(biāo)人群。我并不認(rèn)為設(shè)計(jì)是藝術(shù)，我關(guān)注的是設(shè)計(jì)對(duì)于品牌、環(huán)境和幸福的影響。這也是客戶信任我的主要原因。最終，設(shè)計(jì)工作室是一種商業(yè)，是需要營銷的支持的。

At the beginning of my design career, I underestimated my educational background though while working independently it appeared very useful knowledge to be. Each of studio’s projects I develop and analyze like a team of two different persons – designer and marketing manager. It helps me to understand real client’s needs and stay focused on target audience during all steps of a design process. I do not take design as an art and I care about design impact on brands, environment, and well-being. This is the main reason my clients trust me. Eventually, the design studio is a business and it needs marketing support as well.

Narkii: 

成立平面設(shè)計(jì)工作室，遇到的最大的困難是什么呢

What was the biggest difficulty you had encountered during the period when you established your studio?

Yurko:

由于平面設(shè)計(jì)當(dāng)時(shí)在烏克蘭是一個(gè)比較新的行業(yè)，最大的困難和最無聊的事情就是解釋什么是平面設(shè)計(jì)，為什么人們需要它，為什么它這么昂貴。許多客戶將設(shè)計(jì)視為他們對(duì)業(yè)務(wù)的裝飾，并以喜好來評(píng)價(jià)設(shè)計(jì)。現(xiàn)在還到處都是這種類型的客戶，盡管現(xiàn)在我有可能會(huì)去挑選合作的對(duì)象。

As the graphic design was a comparatively new industry at that period in Ukraine, the biggest difficulty and the most boring thing were explanations on what is graphic design, why do people need it and why is it so expensive. Many clients perceived design as a decoration of their businesses and rated design with likes and dislikes. This type of clients is still widely spread today as well though now I have a possibility to choose with whom do I want to work.

Brun'ka

Narkii:

“我們熱愛我們所做的，并相信任何工作的結(jié)果只有在有趣的過程之下才可能有趣?！薄@是從您的網(wǎng)站中引用而來的。您能解釋一下或者舉個(gè)例子嗎？

“We love what we do and believe that any work could be interesting as a result only provided that it is interesting as a process.” --I quote this from your website. Can you explain this or give me an example?

Yurko:

“您對(duì)這個(gè)項(xiàng)目感興趣嗎？”這個(gè)問題在業(yè)界挺流行，這聽起來就像設(shè)計(jì)師是小孩子，而客戶需要用有趣的東西來讓他們開心。這個(gè)問題無論對(duì)哪方來講都不對(duì)。這樣問的客戶試圖增加靈感的成分，而減少財(cái)務(wù)的成分?；卮饐栴}的設(shè)計(jì)師則是試著只關(guān)注創(chuàng)意的愉快部分，而減少額外研究、分析以及試驗(yàn)的困難。這問題的正確回答之一是“如果一個(gè)項(xiàng)目本身就有趣，那么它是不需要設(shè)計(jì)解決方案的”。我相信，也用我的設(shè)計(jì)證明了只有設(shè)計(jì)師才能讓項(xiàng)目有趣起來。設(shè)計(jì)流程對(duì)我來說非常重要，而我的一個(gè)秘密就是我熱愛我所做的每一個(gè)項(xiàng)目。我喜歡設(shè)計(jì)過程中每個(gè)小小的步驟，也試著盡可能去完善小細(xì)節(jié)。熱愛不能僅限在你工作的早上九點(diǎn)到下午六點(diǎn)里。在我內(nèi)心深處一直有這種感覺。

The question “Is this project interesting to you?” is quite popular in design sphere and it sounds like designers are kids and clients have to entertain them with something interesting. This question is totally wrong for both sides. Asking this question, clients try to arise inspiration constituent hoping to reduce financial constituent. Answering this question, designers try to concentrate only on a pleasant part of creativity and reduce difficulties connected with additional research, analysis, and experimenting. One of the right answers to this question is “If a project is interesting itself, it does not need design solution”. I believe and I proved it with my design that only designer can make a project to be interesting. The design process is very important for me and one of my secrets is that I am in love with every project I do. I adore every little step of development and try to perfect every tiny detail while I can do it. Love cannot last from 9 AM to 6 PM. I have this feeling inside of me all the time.

這種方式能夠做出高質(zhì)量的設(shè)計(jì)，但同時(shí)也要付出代價(jià)。因?yàn)槲覍?duì)團(tuán)隊(duì)成員在態(tài)度上也有相同要求，所以合作起來常常會(huì)有困難。所以我只和最熱情的人合作。 

This approach allows getting high-quality design but it has the price. Collaboration with other creative people is often difficult, as I demand the same attitude from other team members. That is why I work only with the most passionate people.

開個(gè)玩笑，我想說懂得營銷幫助我活了下來。它總是迫使我去比較我的疲憊程度和我的銀行賬目。

As a joke, I would say that knowing marketing helps me to survive biologically. It always forces me to compare the level of my exhaustion and my bank account statement.

JUSTA

Narkii:

關(guān)于設(shè)計(jì)風(fēng)格，有人說一個(gè)設(shè)計(jì)師需要花上多年時(shí)間才能形成自己的風(fēng)格，而有的設(shè)計(jì)師并不愿意自己局限于某種特定風(fēng)格，對(duì)此您怎么看？

About design style, some people say it takes years for a designer to form his or her own style, while some designers are not willing to confine themselves in a specific style. What do you think about it?

Yurko: 

這些年間我與一些設(shè)計(jì)師朋友討論過這個(gè)問題。在之后我還會(huì)反復(fù)討論它，因?yàn)樵谠O(shè)計(jì)師的發(fā)展生涯中這非常重要。我認(rèn)為設(shè)計(jì)師不應(yīng)該有特定的風(fēng)格。如果你有了自己的風(fēng)格，那么你就是在冒著風(fēng)險(xiǎn)一再重復(fù)相似的項(xiàng)目。然而項(xiàng)目不應(yīng)該是相似的，它們有不同的背景，市場，目標(biāo)受眾等。預(yù)設(shè)好的風(fēng)格對(duì)于那些想要復(fù)制他人成功而不想自己創(chuàng)造的客戶來說很方便。有個(gè)人風(fēng)格的設(shè)計(jì)師一生就做一種項(xiàng)目，項(xiàng)目的名氣就是設(shè)計(jì)師的名氣。這樣有點(diǎn)無聊。我喜歡多樣性，我喜歡引起不同的情緒，這就是為什么我要在每個(gè)新的項(xiàng)目中嘗試新的風(fēng)格。我得承認(rèn)，隨著嘗試越多，這變得越來越難，我也被一些特定的方法和技巧所吸引，但我沒有放棄創(chuàng)新、試驗(yàn)和探索新東西。正因?yàn)槲疫x擇成為一個(gè)設(shè)計(jì)師。

I discussed this topic with a few mates-designers during the years. And I will do it again and again because it is one of the most important questions in designer’s development. My belief is that designer should not have a specific style. If you have the own style you risk creating similar projects over and over. But projects cannot be similar as they have different backgrounds, markets, target audiences, etc. The predicted style is convenient to clients who just want to copy the success of someone else and not to create their own. Designer with individual style creates one project all his/her life and name of this project is the name of the designer. At least this is boring. I like diversity and I like to evoke different emotions that are why I try to make every new project with a new style. I have to admit it becomes harder and harder as I already tried a lot and I started feeling attracted to some certain methods and techniques but I do not give up and try to innovate, experiment and discover something new. This is the reason I chose to be a designer.

Narkii: 

過去五年您專注于包裝設(shè)計(jì)，您覺得包裝設(shè)計(jì)，你通常抓住哪些方面作為創(chuàng)新的切入點(diǎn)呢？

In the past five years, you have been focusing on packaging design. For this area, what aspects do you usually take as the entry to innovation?

Yurko:

首先，我會(huì)收集消費(fèi)者信息，他們的偏好或擔(dān)心，以及包裝生產(chǎn)中可能或可以達(dá)到的技術(shù)相關(guān)信息。接著預(yù)算包裝，理清可以應(yīng)用哪些創(chuàng)新材料或技術(shù)。根據(jù)這些，我就限定了范圍。再者我會(huì)分析特定領(lǐng)域以及全球的競爭者和類似產(chǎn)品。這樣我就制定了我需要達(dá)到或是超越的設(shè)計(jì)標(biāo)準(zhǔn)。此外，我還看到了許多已經(jīng)使用過或者很明顯的點(diǎn)子。我試著去尋找在其他設(shè)計(jì)和藝術(shù)領(lǐng)域中運(yùn)用而未用于包裝的成功方法。最后就是制造驚喜，問我自己“我該怎么做才能抓住人們的注意力呢？”

First of all, I gather information about consumers and their preferences or fears, about the possible and available technologies of packaging production. I figure out how expensive this packaging could be and what innovative materials or techniques could be used if any. Based on this information I build restrictions’ area. Then I analyze all competitors and similar products on chosen territory and worldwide. Based on this information I set a level of design quality I need to reach or overcome. In addition, I see a scope of ideas that are already used or obvious. I try to find successful approaches that were used in other spheres of design and art but never were used in packaging. Now it is time to surprise and I ask myself “What can I do to steal people’s attention?”

Narkii: 

您覺得什么樣的包裝能一下子抓住消費(fèi)者的眼球呢？ 

In your opinion, what kind of package can catch consumers' eyes immediately?

Yurko:

現(xiàn)代消費(fèi)者被設(shè)計(jì)行業(yè)寵壞了，為了給他們留下深刻印象，我便要更加任性。這意味著我需要非常批判性地評(píng)估自己的想法，而且我需要展示人們先前沒有看過的東西，或者至少要出人意料。消費(fèi)者對(duì)待看起來昂貴的包裝態(tài)度是積極的，因?yàn)檫@使他們覺得包裝內(nèi)的產(chǎn)品比他們所花的錢來得更有價(jià)值。也許，典型的包裝比起平面設(shè)計(jì)是更接近于廣告的。成功的訣竅在于平衡和知道哪些規(guī)則可以破壞。

Modern consumers are spoiled by design industry and to impress them I need to be even more spoiled and capricious. It means I need to evaluate my own ideas very critically and I need to show something nobody has seen before or at least nobody expected to see. Consumers positively react on the packaging that looks expensive as it makes them feel that product inside is more valuable than the money they spend to purchase it. Probably, typical packaging design is closer to advertising than to graphic design. The trick of success is in balancing and knowing which rules you can break.

Sunrise Card

Narkii: 

您擁有超過16年的工作經(jīng)驗(yàn)并作為設(shè)計(jì)課程的講師，為學(xué)生上課時(shí)最強(qiáng)調(diào)什么呢？

With more than 16 years of working experience and as a lector on design topics, what do you emphasize most in class for students?

Yurko:

我上課的時(shí)候，總是在講受眾如何看待我的設(shè)計(jì)。我在設(shè)計(jì)中放進(jìn)了什么信息，人們又獲得了哪些信息？我分析這些過程和其中的利弊。設(shè)計(jì)流程并不是在設(shè)計(jì)師向客戶提交方案后就結(jié)束。我不教學(xué)生怎么做設(shè)計(jì)，因?yàn)槲也徽J(rèn)為課程適合用來講這個(gè)。我試著讓人們?nèi)ニ伎荚O(shè)計(jì)，思考這個(gè)職業(yè)本身，思考感知和溝通。分析，傾聽，提問，理解，這些能力在設(shè)計(jì)中比畫圖更重要。年輕的設(shè)計(jì)師不知道或是忽略這些，這正是早期遇到困難和誤解的主要原因。

During my lectures, I always try to give information on how my design was taken by the audience. What messages did I put in design and what messages people get? I analyze why did it happen and was it good or bad. The design process is not finished after the designer has sent layout to the client. I do not try to teach how to design, as I do not believe that lectures are a good source for this purpose. I try to make people think about design, about the profession itself, about perception and communication. Analysis, ability to listen, to hear, to ask a question and to understand takes much bigger part of design than drawing. Young designers do not know it or ignore it and this is the main reason of early stage difficulties and misunderstanding.

Narkii: 

烏克蘭設(shè)計(jì)業(yè)為設(shè)計(jì)師們提供了怎樣的環(huán)境呢？

What kind of environment for designers does design industry provide in Ukraine?

Yurko:

烏克蘭的設(shè)計(jì)環(huán)境可以說越來越好了。在這里有新的一代人，他們渴望并嘗試著去改進(jìn)生活，包括設(shè)計(jì)與藝術(shù)方面。我起步那會(huì)兒還沒有一間現(xiàn)代的設(shè)計(jì)學(xué)校，除了少數(shù)在做過時(shí)無用的蘇維埃項(xiàng)目的機(jī)構(gòu)。如今烏克蘭有好幾家私立的設(shè)計(jì)學(xué)校，提供長期的課程以及單課或講習(xí)班。這些學(xué)校不只位于首都地區(qū)，在西部東部和南部的一些大城市也有所分布。關(guān)于設(shè)計(jì)的會(huì)議，聚會(huì)，評(píng)論，比賽也越來越常有。不好的是，烏克蘭的經(jīng)濟(jì)和政治情況仍然不佳，它們阻礙了商業(yè)的發(fā)展，國外的投資，迫使許多商人和創(chuàng)意人士移民或是在國外工作。這種情況強(qiáng)烈得影響了設(shè)計(jì)產(chǎn)業(yè)。結(jié)果造成現(xiàn)在這里并沒有大型的，賦有抱負(fù)的或長期的設(shè)計(jì)項(xiàng)目。設(shè)計(jì)師主要都在進(jìn)行短期，中小型無風(fēng)險(xiǎn)的項(xiàng)目。志愿無償項(xiàng)目成為一種趨勢。

Design scene in Ukraine is definitely becoming better and better. There is a new generation of people that want and try to improve life in Ukraine, including design and art spheres. When I started there was no single contemporary design school except few institutes with outdated and useless Soviet programs. Now there are several private design schools in Ukraine that offer long-lasting courses as well as single lectures or workshops. These schools cover not the capital area only but also a few big cities on the west, east and south of the country. Design conferences, meetups, reviews, competitions became regular events in Ukraine. Unfortunately, the economic and political situation in Ukraine is remaining hard and it prevents business development, foreign investments and forces numerous businessmen and creative people to immigrate or work abroad. This situation strongly affects design industry. As a result, there are no big, ambitious or long-lasting design projects in Ukraine. Designers mainly work for short time, small to middle-sized non-risky projects. Volunteering and non-profit projects become trendy.

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